Curse

TadaceAce · Jul 30, 2006, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Hrmm heres what I think they're gonna do.

1. Mysticism won't heal, only energy.
2. Balt rage is gettin shafted up to 15 energy or 20 recharge.
3. Mysticism only works if enchants expire not end (bye bye CoP)

Oh and heres an interesting question.... are dervish AE enchants / regular scythe attacks gonna make pve guys scatter like firestorm... imagine how hated dervish would be in pve.

Former Ruling · Jul 30, 2006, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Pretty sure it'd cause AoE Scatter.

But yea some of the better Enchants will get the chopping block. Not sure they'd change the attribute though.

Jerich · Jul 30, 2006, 07:17 AM // 07:17

I think all they really need to do is up the delay on the AOE spells from 5 or 8 seconds to 15 or 20. The dervs would still do spike damage, but then they would have to sit there for 15-20 seconds and do nothing.

- Jerich

Elena · Jul 30, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20

making the scythes cause monsters too run is like THE worst idea i ever heard in my gw life might as well make monsters run when theyre low on health!

Former Ruling · Jul 30, 2006, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elena

making the scythes cause monsters too run is like THE worst idea i ever heard in my gw life might as well make monsters run when theyre low on health!

I think he meant more along the lines of all the overpowered AoE enchants the Dervish uses. They'd pwn so hard in PvE in their current form there'd be NO REASON AT ALL for a PUG to use anything but Dervishes and Monks in the groups..

The Scythe Attacks aren't a real biggie, he probably just added that part of the sentence in on an after thought.

Midnight08 · Jul 30, 2006, 08:40 AM // 08:40

2-3 second cast time on most enchants and theyre done.... would remove the spike effect and slow down cast/remove strats... done deal

WhiteZombie · Jul 30, 2006, 08:55 AM // 08:55

the problem is with all the spamming. dervish can keep powerful enchants up forever and a day even if they strip them off themselves,not because of mysticism primarily, but at the frequency of which the spells can be cast with little or no "downtime" to the dervish. there are barely openings, except when you diversion them (or desecrate/FoC spike them when not under a PS or similar). they should have natural "openings" much like the necromancer summoners now have "openings" where their minions will degen and you cant stop it anymore. as such...

-nerf signet of piety. dont make it insta-recast, make it recharge a % faster, linked to the attribute. lower the inate recharge if you do this to make the skill still viable. this way, even if you have say a ~3 second recharge signet of piety, you can still diversion it. as it stands, you cant disable it at all.
-nerf vital boon. make it have to run its course to add the heal condition, or halve the heal condition (dervishes have enough "when it ends youre healed for 50bajillion+mysticism!" anyway). as it stands, vital boon is a FAR superior version of faithful intervention, so much so faithful intervention is painfully useless compared to it (as long as enchant stacking has no 'downtime' at least).
-pump up the recharge on all the AoE enchants. 15-20 seconds at least.

just some food for thought

samifly · Jul 30, 2006, 09:55 AM // 09:55

A dervish right now could own most pve mobs solo...

Paperfly · Jul 30, 2006, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Note that for the class to be workable in PVE (which is problematic when you're a class that depends on enchanting) adding to the recharge times accross the board would be a bad idea.

Honestly, I think the best solution would simply be to cut down on their damage capacity a bit. Mysticism needs some tweaking too, but I have no idea how to do so without sinking the class to unplayability.

Quid Pro Quo · Jul 30, 2006, 10:13 AM // 10:13

I don't think they would do any better or worse in PvE then a wammo. They would just shine better in different areas.

Minus Sign · Jul 30, 2006, 10:18 AM // 10:18

There is (very sadly) a simple solution to the Dervish CoP Bomber. Since most of the "exploit" builds I've seen revolve around using CoP for Emanager, spam and healing...they nerf CoP. Again. Saying this pisses me off, since it also has the potential to nerf my favored build-->boonprot. The reason I put it out there is in hopes of controlling how they nerf it.

Instead of further tearing the skill down, make it more monk specialized. Instead of removing all enchantments, they can make CoP remove 1 enchant at zero DF, up to a max of--say--8 at 16.

D/Mo skills do need a little tweeking anyway though. Particualrly those that deal Holy Damage. They're--quite frankly--vicious.

Karmaniac · Jul 30, 2006, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paperfly

Note that for the class to be workable in PVE (which is problematic when you're a class that depends on enchanting) adding to the recharge times accross the board would be a bad idea.

Somehow I can recall a similar tragedy happening in the near past.

Ah mae be but a simple guy from teh country and Ah don't know nothing of this "gaem balanse".... IMO there's nothing wrong with the skills except that they atm are dirt cheap, recharge almost immediately and are ridiculously powerful. Otherwise they are fine as they are.

Saix The Spartan · Jul 30, 2006, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midnight08

2-3 second cast time on most enchants and theyre done.... would remove the spike effect and slow down cast/remove strats... done deal

Then they would be the most useless class ever made..

Lambentviper · Jul 30, 2006, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midnight08

2-3 second cast time on most enchants and theyre done.... would remove the spike effect and slow down cast/remove strats... done deal

no no, this is fixing the dervish, not dis-ableing them from doing anything at all.

IF ANet did that, what WOULD the dervish be able to accomplish? just get rid of the whole eart hand wind prayer attributes if your gonna take that route

zakaria · Jul 30, 2006, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadaceAce

2. Balt rage is gettin shafted up to 15 energy or 20 recharge.

you know that dervish has 25 energy pool ?!

Quote:

3. Mysticism only works if enchants expire not end (bye bye CoP)

half of of dervish skills depend on lose one enchantment and do X so your idea will not work that way.

unmatchedfury · Jul 30, 2006, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minus Sign

There is (very sadly) a simple solution to the Dervish CoP Bomber. Since most of the "exploit" builds I've seen revolve around using CoP for Emanager, spam and healing...they nerf CoP. Again. Saying this pisses me off, since it also has the potential to nerf my favored build-->boonprot. The reason I put it out there is in hopes of controlling how they nerf it.

Instead of further tearing the skill down, make it more monk specialized. Instead of removing all enchantments, they can make CoP remove 1 enchant at zero DF, up to a max of--say--8 at 16.

D/Mo skills do need a little tweeking anyway though. Particualrly those that deal Holy Damage. They're--quite frankly--vicious.

the only thing that needs nerfing is CoP, by themselves teh enchants dont do anything. but when tehir dmg and effects are apliied wihtin seconds of each otehr and teh deverish gets heal sig every 1 second, not cool, not balneced, and very in need of a heavy nerf.

WasAGuest · Jul 30, 2006, 01:25 PM // 13:25

I'm curious to see the Dervish in action in PvE as well. With the AI mobs having insta interupts and enchantment strips, plus I'm sure we'll be facing some dervish mobs who are set for enchant prevention/stripping; playing the dervish will be interesting.
The AoE run from zero damage effect (my name for the AoE "fix") is quickly offset with that AE Cripple attack the Dervish has. I forget the name, but the D/Wa has it.

Let's not call for a complete destruction of one of the funnest and most unique classes we've seen yet. I imagine Anet has some tricks up their sleeves for the mobs in Nightfall.

Offtopic: Anyone else get a kick out of seeing the Dervish spin and twirl while she attacked? I loved it!

fb2000 · Jul 30, 2006, 01:52 PM // 13:52

tear down dmg (especially the holy ones..), increase cast time, increase cost, increase recharge, reduce the + from ending enchantments

sounds about right oO

HolyHawk · Jul 30, 2006, 02:09 PM // 14:09

I agree on keeping the energy regain and cut down the health regain on their primary attributes. Higher cool down of enchantments would be nice as well, and eventual longer casts. Right now they are way unbalanced and can really solo most of the core classes. IMO, they have too much power, can heal, can manage energy, can deal heavy area dmg. What will happen to the core classes, have dervish nerfed them alltogether?

twicky_kid · Jul 30, 2006, 02:22 PM // 14:22

I don't think they should touch Mystism. The dervish has a 25 energy pool with most of their attack skills and spell cost 10-15e. Balth Rage and Heart are great skills but I don't think they deserve overpowered status. I would increase the recharge to 12-15 seconds. 20 seconds is too long. These guys are made for pressure. At 12-15 seconds recharge that would put it in line with Sin recharges and war adrenaline gain.

You can't do anything if you can't catch the target. CoP will have to be changed and I like the suggestion from Minus Sign. Remove the "lose all enchants" from CoP and make it linked to attribute. Even if you make that change they will simply change to release enchantments.

I ran this build with a Guild that was rather noobs and it completely fell on its face. Its not as easy as it seems. Kiting will completely own the build. Wars don't want to mess with a dervish though